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Moon-Pluto Natal Aspects (Friend or Foe – there's nothing in between)

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Moon-Pluto Natal Aspects (Friend or Foe – there's nothing in between)

Beitrag von Tigerin am So Okt 22, 2017 12:43 pm

©️ 2017 Tigerin

This post is about tension aspects between Moon and Pluto in the natal chart (Conjunct, Square, Opposite).  affraid

The Moon and its aspect/s (as well as the sign and house position) stand/s, according to astrology, for the emotions of a person, the mother, and experiences with women in general.

The mother of a person with Moon-Pluto is extremely hostile toward the child. She's very critical and enjoys it greatly when the child suffers. The intention of this mother is to destroy the child. Because of that, the Moon-Pluto individual sees the world as unsafe and threatening.

In the mother's mind the world revolves around her. She's “it”, and everyone should obey her.

The mother likes to torture the child. Twisted Evil Examples: if the child is sick with the flu, he/she still has to clean the house. Or if the child mentions he/she doesn't like carrots, the mother will from then on cook dishes with a lot of carrots in them.

Such examples explain why Pluto-people in general keep to themselves. They know from experience that things will get used against them in some way.

Pluto-people = Anyone with a tense Pluto aspect to their Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, and/or Mars. As well as, Pluto in Square to the Ascendant/Descendant and MC/IC (=10th house/4th house).

If a catastrophe were to happen, the mother of Moon-Pluto would save herself and leave the child behind without blinking an eye. Then she'd tell others a made-up story about what happened so that she (the mother) will be celebrated as the best mother of all. (“I tried to save him/her, but aliens came and took him/her. There was a struggle (she means she lost her sunglasses or something while saving herself ), then I tripped, and see here I have a little scratch. Poor me.”)
If the mother would see the child again and there were people around, she'd act happy to see him/her. In private, she'd say to the child something like “You made me lose my sunglasses, good-for-nothing.”

People who believe the mother of Moon-Pluto are either not that bright, or don't care about the child.  cyclops

The child is not allowed to show his/her true self, or any talents. All that has to be “stopped from developing”, because the mother sees the child as a threat. In reality, the mother is a threat to the child.

The mother of Moon-Pluto will deny everything. She will claim she is a fabulous mother. If she admits anything, it will be drenched in a poor-me monologue: “I had a bad life. (no, she didn't) I'm so insecure. I didn't realize what I did to him/her.” Anything to put the focus on her and have people feel sorry for her. Anyone who believes a person like that, is, in my opinion, dumb.

The Moon-Pluto person cannot rely on the mother, and that also concerns many other women. The Moon stands for the emotional needs, and with Moon-Pluto the child needs to be their own mother, nurture him/herself (Moon = nurturing).

The emotional needs of the child are/were not met by the mother, and a lot of other women later in life will behave the same way (clingy, whiny, hateful, backstabbing).

The Moon-Pluto child is not loved or respected, merely tolerated, used and abused. The mother is highly manipulative and very skilled at setting other family members and people against the child. 

Because of the tactics of the manipulative mother, the child will "smell" these kinds of actions in general right away. Pluto-people see through manipulation, and any other kind of deceit. They can't stand it. If someone is unauthentic, Pluto-people look like they're having a toothache. They detest any kind of manipulative or otherwise insincere display.  :escape:

The mother is a very hateful and negative person who dominates the entire family and demands utter submission. She is resentful of even the slightest happiness the child feels. Many other women react the same way toward Moon-Pluto.

The mother of a Moon-Pluto person denies any kind of violence (”You just imagined that.“, ”You're stressed.“, ”That never happened.“ etc.)

Brainwashing is very common among tense Pluto aspects.

Criticized for every move, every look, not granted any privacy (diaries and text messages were read, no knocking on a door – just barging in, having to account for every minute of their time - who they talked to and why, no personal space to recover, having their trash went through) – in other words, controlling everything - even what gets thrown out - the Moon-Pluto child is under continuous observation. The mother is breathing down the child's neck, never letting him/her out of sight.

The mother is obsessed with the child (as are many other women).

If the child talks back or refuses to obey, the mother will retaliate.

There will be punishment in the form of one or more of the following:

* insults

* threats

* blackmail

* guilt-trips

* silent treatment

* spreading lies or personal information

* physical violence

Public humiliation occurs when the child tries to protect him/herself by ending all contact.

He/She will hear all kinds of manipulation:”You need to respect your mother.“, “If you don't..., then I will...”, “Look at all the things I've done for you.” or trying to suck up to the child as if nothing happened.

Anything to get the Moon-Pluto person back under control. The mother is power-hungry, wants to break the child's will.

The mother of Moon-Pluto is very controlling.

There are different degrees of intensity regarding the abuse coming from a mother like that. The mildest form is “merely” criticizing the child, meaning not talking nicely to and about him/her. The most severe form is the “complete destruction” of the child. Not every mother of a Moon-Pluto child has the same degree of evilness.

Very rarely do Pluto-people “pass on” a tense Pluto aspect to their own child (and rather a different one than they have themselves), or generally like to torture other people. The ones who do, have suffered the mildest form of mistreatment from the parent and moved away from that parent at a very early age.

It is not unusual that a Moon-Pluto child gets cheated out of his/her inheritance (the mother schemes/d), or that the mother cuts him/her out of her will, or she cashes in on the alimony payments that are meant for the child.

The mother twists the facts and makes herself out to be the victim. The truth is: the child is the victim, the mother is the offender.

The mother often gives indirect orders (“The window is open.” etc.) and expects the child to “jump”. The child experiences constant humiliation.

The tone of voice of the mother is cold-hearted, disdainful, and snarky.

Projects get sabotaged. The mother tries to talk the Moon-Pluto child out of his/her goals in life and is very competitive with him/her. The mother does not only NOT support the child, but actively sabotages him/her.  Twisted Evil

In short, Pluto invades boundaries, pushes limits.

Their upbringing was filled with negativity. There was a heaviness in the environment. No fun, easygoing attitude from the mother, or any kind of play time that made the child laugh or feel good.

A Moon-Pluto person doesn't hear encouragement from the mother (unless in public where she needs to keep up her fake-nice facade).

If the child, for example, gets a bad grade, he/she hears ”You're a loser.”, “You're not good for anything.“, ”Serves you right.“

Family members are almost always involved in the Pluto dynamics. They often support the view of the hostile mother or get sent to change the child's mind (and they're glad they aren't getting attacked).

In their childhood, Pluto-people didn't know when something was going to happen. They were walking on egg shells. That is why they are always on guard.  Suspect

Very often the mother of Moon-Pluto had an agenda for having the child (“accidentally” getting pregnant to trap a man, marrying for money, having a child to not have to work etc.), as many other women also have an evil agenda for befriending a Moon-Pluto person. In short: They want to use the Moon-Pluto individual.

Pluto-people are highly self-controlled people. They were not allowed to show when they're happy, react spontaneously, or angrily. Moon-Pluto can violently hate someone, yet you wouldn't be able to tell based on their facial expression. They have a poker face.

The showing of anger is/was only reserved for the mother. And she regularly has/had temper tantrums like a complete psycho.
The mother of a Moon-Pluto person has a violent temper.  :nudelholz: :schimpfen:

To the outside world the mother is overly friendly, meaning: fake as can be. She often talks greatly of the child to others. But behind closed doors she lets her hostility toward the child out.

The mother of Moon-Pluto is pure evil, acts in secret, and never does anything unless it benefits her.

Some Moon-Pluto people say their mother is nothing like that. However, this is not correct according to astrology.

They say this because they either:

* haven't untangled themselves yet (are very young – under 30).

* idealize her (often after the mother passed away).

* believe that nice words and submission will change the mother, or women in general.

* are simply embarrassed to have such a mother.

* often don't admit that to outsiders (Pluto-people are very mistrustful).

or because:

* the mother has something embarrassing regarding the child that she'd use if not obeyed.

If you want to know what kind of person a mother really is, look at the child's Moon and Venus in his/her birth chart (as well as possible siblings of that child -  siblings often get treated very differently!), and the 4th house.

The mother of a Moon-Pluto person will lie until it is her last day. She will play victim and try to brainwash the child “You better respect your mother.”, as well as others “It was just a misunderstanding. He/She exaggerates.”

In very rare cases the aspect stands for a grandmother or a stepmother, but only if that woman has had an immense influence on the person with Moon-Pluto during childhood, especially the first 3 years. Meaning not just visiting once or twice a year. When there are ambivalent aspects to the Moon (depending on the planet or star) there were at least two women that had an influence on the child.

Example: Moon Trine Neptune and Moon Square Pluto do not show the influence of one and the same woman.

Moon-Pluto is mostly seen in the eyes of a person. It's a piercing, often threatening, look. This is the suppressed anger from all the years, even decades, of abuse, as well as their profundity shining through.

Some of them develop OCD, and most of them don't feel comfortable in large crowds.

When it comes to the mother, a child with Moon in the 8th house or Moon in Scorpio experiences the mother in a similar way, but A LOT weaker. Aspects to planets or stars trump the sign and house position.

The longer a Moon-Pluto person denies the character of the mother, as well as the own Pluto-side, the more he/she will come across women in life who resemble the evil mother.

With Moon-Pluto one often comes across controlling, domineering, devious, and princess-like women. They are incredibly phoney and diabolical. Twisted Evil THE red flag – before knowing them better – is that they always want to have things their way, and are very pushy.

Example: Moon-Pluto says “I really like swimming.”, the mother, or another controlling woman, will snappily encounter “Running is better.” They relish in outdoing the Moon-Pluto person.

The mother of Moon-Pluto likes to create an atmosphere of confrontation. She enjoys provoking the child.

This behavior is not to underestimate and not to forgive. Which is something Moon-Pluto people do not do. Even if they hear an apology years later, a Moon-Pluto person never forgets and never forgives any kind of backstabbing or otherwise horrible behavior. And they don't care about forgiveness lectures either. Pluto sees things as either-or.

Many women a Moon-Pluto person comes across in life will let him/her down, they will betray Moon-Pluto, and bail on him/her. Just like the own mother of Moon-Pluto acts.

The Moon-Pluto person is the scapegoat for the mother and many other women.

Tips for Moon-Pluto people:

Moon-Pluto people (and Venus-Pluto) need to be very careful regarding women (about Moon-Pluto and Venus-Pluto compared to each other: The mother of a Moon-Pluto person is, in most cases, much worse than the one of Venus-Pluto).

With a tense Moon-Pluto aspect, a person will come across many malicious, backstabbing women in life who will sabotage him/her in some way. They will hate the Moon-Pluto person for no reason. That is typical if someone has Moon-Pluto.

After taking advantage of the Moon-Pluto person, he/she will be cast out, titled "the evil one”.

Expect that, with Moon-Pluto, many women will harm you behind your back and pretend being nice.

Beware of women (and they will behave like this especially toward Moon-Pluto) who:

* suck up to you, fake-friendly approach you.

* badmouth people and put them (and you) down.

* are critical, pushy, and clingy.

* always have to have everything go their way (the number 1 red flag: controlling behavior!).

* only show up when they want something.


* listen to your gut! (Pluto-people have excellent instincts, and see through others)

The first breeze of controlling, pushy behavior or diva attitude, Moon-Pluto should be gone.  :escape:

Women will neither appreciate nor return the favor or be loyal to Moon-Pluto. They will use him/her, then drop him/her, and on top of that, share private information and/or spread lies.

Things Moon-Pluto gets accused of, the mother and other evil women did.

Do not be THAT nice toward women. It doesn't matter if it's women you don't know, or colleagues, clients, family members, friends etc.

With Moon-Pluto you often need to be an “authority figure” toward women, or they'll eat you alive. Even the nicer ones will. They may genuinely not believe that they will act that way one day toward Moon-Pluto, but they will.

If the boundaries of Moon-Pluto won't get accepted (which they often don't), “appropriate actions need to be taken“ by Moon-Pluto, in other words, consequences. 

No exceptions.

And no bluffing.

If someone wants a life-long enemy, double-crossing a Pluto-person is the way to go.

Apologies and amends are useless - once considered a traitor, you're out of his/her life.

Pluto-people can change from “loyal and protective friend” to “You better start running and hiding.” within 1 second when they find out someone went behind their back.

At best some Moon-Pluto people are merely unforgiving (even if they say otherwise), while many others are downright revengeful (even if they say otherwise).

A Moon-Pluto person (and in general Pluto-people) will make sure “balance gets restored” one day. Even if that takes years or decades. Time doesn't matter. They never forget and never forgive, even if some of them preach the whole “only love, light, forgiveness” nonsense.

Pluto is dark. And suppressing Pluto only makes it angrier.  :Kopf durch die Wand

Even if a Pluto-person wants it that way (“only love, light, forgiveness”), Pluto is still there, bubbling underneath.

Pluto can be resembled to a volcano waiting to erupt.

The longer Moon-Pluto people deny their own dark side, the longer and more often this energy comes from other women. An aspect gets experienced in life one way, or the other.

Once Pluto-people accept their dark side, they revel in it. That's because it's a part of them that wants to be accepted and "lived".  :banana yea:

The ”There's only light and love. Forgive everybody.“ speech from some Pluto-people is annoying. It's not true and it doesn't help them if they deny their Pluto-side. They won't get liked or left alone.

Moon-Pluto cannot appease with kindness, that only riles evil snakes up more. It's as if these spoiled, ungrateful psycho-princesses want to have Mommy set boundaries for them, wanting to "meet Pluto."

Seriously, as soon as a Moon-Pluto person puts these psycho-women in place - Pluto-style - (Pluto-people know how I mean that :schimpfen: ) , these princesses are suddenly baffled and become very quiet. That oddly calms them down and keeps them in check.  Shocked






Why some Pluto-people come with the “Always be nice.” way is strange, because Pluto despises phoniness more than anyone.

Moon-Pluto women often have very few female friends, if any at all. And that's good! If one has Moon-Pluto it's imperative to only befriend other Moon-Pluto or Venus-Pluto women (Venus also stands for the mother). No exceptions.

To rely on women is the last thing a Moon-Pluto person should do.

Some will think this is ridiculous or extreme, but it will happen one day that a woman who doesn’t have Moon-Pluto (or Venus-Pluto), will betray the Moon-Pluto person. Even if it's years or decades after the friendship was formed. Most women who befriend a Moon-Pluto person have evil intentions.

Know that snaky women in general have a fabulous image. They appear overly nice and classy. Most of them come with “female empowerment”, “non-violent communication” or “respect others” to such an extreme degree that it makes you want to hurl. Then you check their child's natal chart and see Moon-Pluto, Venus-Pluto, Moon in Scorpio, or Moon in the 8th house.

LOL!  Laughing

It's a front. 

If you're genuinely respectful toward a Moon-Pluto person, you will have a friend for life. If you betray them, it's better to never cross their path again.

Be clear about this: Things evil women do to Moon-Pluto is not just being a little bitchy or difficult. These women harm/destroy the reputation or lives of Moon-Pluto individuals by spreading lies, stealing from them, making sure Moon-Pluto loses a job, and much worse. This is not something to roll one's eyes at or minimize. And evil women won't stop unless Moon-Pluto dips into their dark side. Moon-Pluto people know. They've tried the whole “be above it” or “ignore and it will go away” nonsense.

Moon-Pluto experiences scheming and exploitation you wouldn't believe.

These tips come across as dramatic to Non-Pluto people, but unfortunately with tense Pluto aspects it is necessary to behave a certain way.

Either “live” Pluto yourself, or have it come from outside.

Women are incredibly pushy and do not respect the boundaries of the Moon-Pluto person. THAT is EXACTLY what Pluto is about: Boundaries do not get respected. That can go from, for example, calls at 4 a.m. to spreading lies.

Moon-Pluto people are used to “being dropped” as soon as they share a different opinion on something or set boundaries in any way. That women suddenly break off contact with them when there is even the slightest disagreement. This is exactly how the mother acts: the child doesn’t obey, and BANG!, she retaliates using either the silent treatment or a temper tantrum. According to the mother of Moon-Pluto, and most other women Moon-Pluto comes across, it has to be her (the mother's or another woman's) way, or no way.

More tips:

* Look at a woman's Moon and Venus in her natal chart, as well as the 4th house.

* If a woman has a child who has a tense Moon-Pluto (or Venus-Pluto) aspect, I suggest to immediately get out of that woman's life. 

* If a woman wants to befriend you, see that you get a look at her guy's/girl's natal chart should she not be single. If her guy/girl has a tense Moon-Pluto (or Venus-Pluto) aspect in his/her chart, I suggest to decline the friendship. If you think this is nonsense or crazy, go ahead and befriend her, and then do tell after a few months or years what she did. Same goes for Pluto in the 7th house or Square the 7th house. The ONLY exception is if that person with such a placement in the natal chart is with another Pluto person or  "lives" the Pluto energy him/herself. THEN the partner is probably alright. Still, assuming the partner is a good person, he/she still has a nasty side, which then will only come out when threatened. 

About that: Pluto-people themselves don't back down when threatened. Either they snap back immediately, or plan something to get back at the person who is threatening them.

* If the woman has a sibling or several siblings, check their natal charts and look at Mercury, especially its aspects. Mercury stands for siblings. If her sister/brother has for example Mercury Square Pluto, then you know. If she has more siblings and there are ambivalent aspects to Mercury, still be very cautious, her character could be indicated by the tense Pluto aspect.

When it comes to the orb (= distance) between aspects, a 5- 6 degree distance is advisable. Anything more than 6 degrees some can identify with, while others cannot. The absolute limit when it comes to the orb is 10 degrees. Anything within 5 degrees is an aspect, no matter if “moving toward the planet/star” or “already past it”.

And please, planets or stars cannot “shine through” others (this only concerns the Conjunct aspect). Let's say, Moon, Pluto, and Mars are in Virgo (Moon at 5 degrees, Pluto at 8 degrees, and Mars at 10 degrees) there is only Moon Conjunct Pluto, NOT Moon Conjunct Mars.

For Moon-Pluto individuals it's wrong to build up women or help them when they come along with their dramas, but an answer such as “That's not my problem.” and to say that in a very strict, even cold, tone with a strong body language. At first these whiny, narcissistic princesses won't accept that, they'll throw a tantrum, which means the Moon-Pluto person can laugh at this grown woman acting like a spoiled, loony brat.

Moon-Pluto people have to purposely seek out other Moon-Pluto (or Venus-Pluto) people. They will be supportive of them.

The Moon-Pluto person is accustomed to the mother dumping all her issues on him/her. For example, if divorced, the mother talks badly about the father to the child, trying to set the child against the father, and demands that the child asks the father all kinds of things.

That is, among other things, why Moon-Pluto individuals have a high frustration limit, why they listen to the dramas of their fake female friends for so long.

Pluto in the 4th house in the natal chart is cute compared to a tense Moon-Pluto aspect. It's even inferior to Moon in the 8th house or Moon in Scorpio.

Snaky women won't accept Moon-Pluto for standing up for him/herself and will often first react crazier to regain control. Moon-Pluto needs to “bare their claws”, because psycho-princesses need to surrender to Pluto. Unfortunately, it does not work any other way, they will not back down otherwise.

Women need to be put in their place by the Moon-Pluto person.

Non-Pluto people do not understand this, that's because being above it has worked for them (or mostly they just lie about it). However, that does not work with tense Pluto-aspects.

There may be a few women who act nicely no matter what, but they - at the same time - have a very intense “Don't mess with me.” aura, which means they do have that dark side inside as well. They can say all they want, when you look at them, you see it.

Moon-Pluto has to become their own mother figure, because the mother won't behave like one. The mother and other horrible women (whiny, overwhelming, demanding) expect the Moon-Pluto person to attend to their needs (= Moon), to act like a mother.




Because of their princess-like-thinking, these diabolical women expect that Moon-Pluto represents the safety they themselves had growing up. These women are spoiled and because of that feel entitled to demand that of the Moon-Pluto person.

Under no circumstances should Moon-Pluto people play mother toward anyone, but themselves (or their own child/ren).

Moon-Pluto stands for power plays with women. The mother rejects the child, and so do many other women. For no rational reason. The mother and many other women want to see Moon-Pluto “beneath them”.

And that has to change. 


Women need to be kept in check by Moon-Pluto. No security is to be given.

Always question a woman's motive toward you if you have Moon-Pluto (or Venus-Pluto)!

Know this: Pluto-people respond. They do not start. Unfortunately it (= evil actions by evil women) won't stop, unless they (Pluto) respond with their dark side.

The visual difference between the sign Scorpio (Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, or the Ascendant in the sign of Scorpio, without a tense Pluto aspect!) and a person with a tense Pluto aspect to at least one planet or star is:

With the Scorpio sign the person looks like as if the Pluto-energy is merely breathed on, whereas with a tense Pluto-aspect the energy looks pure.

Or described differently: juice mixed with water, compared to pure juice.

Pluto-people believe, because they could only make it through childhood that way, that when they put themselves down in front of the parent or hold themselves back (because they know any happiness or accomplishment would set the parent off and feel threatened), that they will be left alone, have peace – for a while.

But, Pluto needs to show their power and talents, only then will the parent and others back down. Not in the beginning, of course, where the parent tries to regain control by behaving even more irrationally.

The time the Moon-Pluto child puts his/her mother in her place is completely up to him/herself. No unnecessary risks should be taken. What outsiders think of the mother (and that includes friends, colleagues etc.) is absolutely uninteresting.

The mother of Moon-Pluto is insufferable. A raging tyrant.

Pluto-people are on guard at all times, watching their back. They are always prepared no matter what, or which person it is concerning. And Pluto always has a back-up plan, or several.

They defend and protect people who get cast out – as they are/were themselves. All the shallow things many people are seduced by, a Pluto-person cannot stand.

Because the Moon also stands for children, people with a tense Pluto aspect to the Moon are very protective of children. That goes for tense aspects between Moon and Mars as well. Mars and Pluto are the warrior planets. They fight for victims.

A Pluto individual has to be the powerful person he/she really is. It is not in his/her life plan to be mousy. Pluto-people have the profundity and immense willpower to achieve their goals.

Pluto brings forth the bold truth and uncovers secrets.

Moon-Pluto will one day turn the tables on the mother and other evil women who betrayed him/her in some way.

There is no other way the mother's behavior, as well as that of other snaky women, can be stopped, unless the dark side of the Moon-Pluto child emerges. :fresse dich!:

©️ 2017 Tigerin

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